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The vice presidential debate Tuesday night pitted Democratic Sen. Tim Kaine against Republican Gov. Mike Pence. The night, which was calm at first, then devolved into incessant interrupting and insult-throwing, highlighting just how deep the divide between the Trump and Clinton candidacies truly is.
Both Pence and Kaine defended the policy proposals of their running mates. Key areas of cleavage were the economy, immigration reform, national security and foreign policy.
Pence blames the Obama Administration, and Clinton’s involvement in it, for the “slowest economic policy since the Great Depression.”
The Republican vice presidential nominee claimed that the national debt doubled under the past administration due to programs like Obamacare, a “war on coal” and other “stifling” regulations, all of which Clinton and Kaine want to continue and expand upon.
Some of these statements are true. The national debt did double while Obama was in office, and the recovery from the Great Recession was slower than others that occurred post-WWII. However, it was also the longest and deepest economic downturn in the post-war era.
But it is nearly impossible to determine whether or not Obama is responsible for this slow growth. Like any president, he has probably helped and hurt the economy in various ways – and at this point, it is a matter of opinion as to which he has done more.
Kaine echoed Clinton in proclaiming the superiority of their economic plan.
How he framed the two plans:
“Hillary and I have a plan that is on the table that is a ‘you’re hired’ plan… the Trump plan is a different plan, it’s a ‘you’re fired’ plan.”
Kaine elaborated on this, stating that Trump’s plan is reminiscent of the policies that led to the Great Recession, whereas “independent analysts say that the Clinton plan would grow the economy by 10.5 million jobs; the Trump plan would cost 3.5 million jobs.”
Clinton said the same thing in the first presidential debate on Sept. 26 – a statement which we found to be hard to verify.
However, this debate focused less on the economic policies of Trump and Clinton, and more on why Kaine and Pence think their running mate is the better candidate for America’s current economy – as well as what the current economy actually is. Where Pence painted the picture of a struggling economy only Trump can fix, Kaine spoke of economic growth that only Clinton could continue.
Some agreement in regards to policing and the need for reform.
Both Pence and Kaine are in favor of community policing. However, the similarities between the candidates plans for reform in the police system stop there.
Specifically, Pence seemed to be calling for a mix of community policing and stop-and-frisk tactics. He added that stop-and-frisk benefits “families that live in our inner city that are besieged in crime.”
Pence then called out Clinton and Kaine as being anti-police, since they seek “every opportunity to demean law enforcement broadly by making of implicit bias every time tragedy strikes.”
First off all, it is important to note that stop-and-frisk was found to be largely ineffective in a 2014 study – something that both Trump and Pence continuously fail to acknowledge.
Second, it is dangerous to equate pointing out flaws in the law enforcement system with being anti-police. For Pence to deny that implicit bias in policing is not a problem goes against many recent studies that suggest the opposite, including a Justice Department report on the Baltimore Police Department.
Clinton may bring up implicit biases of police officers more than she should, and she may use recent fatal shootings as talking points in her campaign, but it is a far stretch for Pence to claim that she demeans law enforcement.
Pence echoed Trump on immigration.
What he had to say:
“Donald Trump has laid out a plan to end illegal immigration once and for all in this country. We’ve been talking it to death for 20 years. Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine want to continue the policies of open borders, amnesty, catch and release, sanctuary cities, all the things that are driving wages down in this country, Senator.”
He later added that removing “criminal aliens” and those who are here illegally will “strengthen our economy, strengthen the rule of law in the country and make our communities safer.”
This rhetoric has been part of Trump’s campaign since it began. However, there are two key issues at play within it. Not only is there no evidence that undocumented immigrants are more likely to commit crimes, undocumented immigrants have also been found to raise wages for native and otherwise documented workers.
Kaine called for immigration reform to precede mass deportations.
What he said:
“Hillary and I want bipartisan reform that will put keeping families together as the top goal. Second, that will help focus enforcement efforts on those who are violent. Third, that will do more border control and fourth, it will provide a path to citizenship for those who work hard, pay taxes, play by the rules and take criminal background record checks.”
Kaine contrasted this plan to that of Trump and Pence, which would begin with deportations and then move on to reform. On the other side of this, Pence said that Hillary’s plan for comprehensive immigration reform is just a reiteration of amnesty.
The last major comprehensive immigration reform, the Immigration and Reform Control Act, or IRCA, was passed in 1986 and is what most politicians are referring to when they use the term amnesty. While IRCA is largely considered to be a failure, it is not likely to be because of amnesty.
Furthermore, it is true that Clinton has taken a pro-immigration stance, and her proposed reform would include the granting of amnesty to some undocumented immigrants. But other than that, it should not be compared to or evaluated based off of the IRCA.
A detailed breakdown of where Trump and Clinton stand on immigration reform can be found here.
Nuclear weapons became a talking point…
Kaine called out a statement made by Trump:
“Donald Trump believes that the world will be safer if more nations have nuclear weapons.”
On the other hand, Pence said that the Iran Nuclear Deal, which Clinton is in support of, would lead to nuclear proliferation:
“You essentially guaranteed that Iran will someday become a nuclear power because there’s no limitations once the period of time of the treaty comes off.”
The statements made by both Kaine and Pence are true. Trump has made many conflicting statements about nuclear proliferation, and has said that he thinks the world would be safer if certain countries became nuclear powers.
The Iran Nuclear Deal is a controversial agreement between Iran, the U.S. and five other nations designed to outline the future of Iran’s nuclear programs. It has been praised for limiting the potential power of these programs, since it prohibits Iran from producing a nuclear weapon for at least 10 years. However, critics claim that it is bad for American allies and only serves to postpone, not prevent, Iran from becoming a nuclear power.
Clinton supports the Iran Nuclear Deal, for the most part. But it is important to note that she was not Secretary of State when it was passed.
… as did the Syrian refugee crisis.
What Pence had to say:
“Donald Trump and I are committed to suspending the Syrian refugee program and programs and immigration from areas of the world that have been compromised by terrorism. Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine want to increase the Syrian refugee program.”
Kaine interrupted, said Trump’s would be unconstitutional:
“And with respect to refugees, we want to keep people out if they’re dangerous. Donald Trump said keep them out if they’re Muslim. Mike Pence put a program in place to keep them out if they are from Syria. And yesterday, an appellate court with three Republican judges struck down a Pence plan and said it was discriminatory.”
Clinton has proposed expanding the Syrian refugee program by 550 percent. Furthermore, it is true that the 7th Circuit Court found that an attempt from Pence to limit the flow of Syrian refugees into Indiana, the state he governs, was unconstitutional due to its discriminatory nature.
Critics of Trump in both parties have pointed to his proposed ban on Muslims as a major flaw in his campaign, and it would in all likelihood be found unconstitutional.
The candidates have different plans to combat terrorism.
Both highlighted the specifics of exactly how their running mate would do this, but did not stop there. Pence claimed that the Obama Administration, which Clinton was a part of, “weakened America’s place in the world.”
Kaine, on the other hand, outlined Clinton’s plan to defeat ISIS and then stated that Trump “doesn’t have a plan.”
In other words, they both think that their running mate will be a stronger leader than the other when it comes to combating terrorism. While this could be said about nearly every issue raised throughout the night, it is particularly applicable to the candidates positions on foreign policy – whether it is regarding Russia, Syria, Iran or fighting ISIS.
Pence was unable to defend Trump.
Throughout the night, Kaine listed statements Trump made in the past, and asked Pence to defend his running mate. Pence, for the most part, avoided doing so – but toward the end of the debate, said that Trump “is not a polished politician like you and Hillary Clinton,” implying that not everything Trump says can be taken literally.
However, Pence seemed capable whereas Kaine seemed rehearsed.
Pence succeeded in proving that as Vice President, he would be able to make up for the “unpolished” nature of Trump. Kaine came across as over-trained. He was able to quote Trump verbatim, and relied on pre-scripted lines to make his points.
Kaine also was the first to interrupt his opponent, and did so far more often. This was a stark contrast to the calm facade held by Pence during the debate.
Both candidates were hung up on who is running an “insult-driven campaign.”
The irony of this argument, which persisted throughout the night, is that Pence and Kaine proved that both candidacies rely on insulting the other.
Kaine, on many occasions, brought up the recent revelations regarding Trump’s tax records. He also claimed that Trump may have business dealings with Russia, which could only be denied if he releases his current tax returns.
Pence responded by saying voters distrust Clinton because “they’re paying attention.” Specifically, he brought up the email scandal and suggested that the Clinton Foundation was “accepting contributions from foreign governments.”
This he-said she-said element of the night only served to demonstrate just how far the Clinton and Trump campaigns are willing to go to demean their opponent.
And as we get closer to election day, expect the divide between the candidates to grow even deeper, and the mudslinging to only grow more intense.
Contact CU Independent Opinion Editor Emily McPeak at emily.mcpeak@colorado.edu.
